Curse

Mustache Mayhem · Feb 18, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

it's really on the buyer.. I mean if you get scammed it's more of a lesson learned- next time you'll be watching unless of course your iq is the issue.. then you gotta ask how did they even get signed up for an account

lord_shar · Feb 18, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

it's really on the buyer.. I mean if you get scammed it's more of a lesson learned- next time you'll be watching unless of course your iq is the issue.. then you gotta ask how did they even get signed up for an account

Blaming the victim is poor tact. Furthermore, there are some crimes and mistakes that victims don't get to walk away from.

DABhand · Feb 18, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Its easy to blame the victim, thats why people do that..

Its similar in PUG's, one warrior blames the monk for not healing him when he ran into a huge group of Mursaat Ele's and Mesmer's lol

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Ok guys, it is time for me to remind you yet again that:

1) This is not a real life or death issue here.
2) This is not even a life or death issue here for a *game* character.
3) No meat and bones involved, I repeat.
4) It is some in game gold.

lord_shar · Feb 18, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Ok guys, it is time for me to remind you yet again that:

1) This is not a real life or death issue here.
2) This is not even a life or death issue here for a *game* character.
3) No meat and bones involved, I repeat.
4) It is some in game gold.

No, but blaming the any victim is still relevant, virtual or not. The criminal is always at fault, which is why society doesn't bother sending victims to prison.

Diablo™ · Feb 18, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Discusson got too serious for ya generik?

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

No, but blaming the any victim is still relevant, virtual or not. The criminal is always at fault, which is why society doesn't bother sending victims to prison.

It doesn't matter, whatever's done to the victim has already been done.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Discusson got too serious for ya generik?

Yes, in fact some of the parallels drawn from a scam (that I believe is STILL largely due to the victim's ACTIONS) to real world crimes is not just ridiculous, but not valid at all.

lord_shar · Feb 18, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

It doesn't matter, whatever's done to the victim has already been done.

Sure it does, which is why the modern world continues to maintain a penal code system. Criminals get incarsarated or executed as necessary. In one particular country, the government puts a bullet into the condemned criminal's head, then bills the family of of the criminal for the price of the bullet.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Sure it does, which is why the modern world continues to maintain a penal code system. Criminals get incarsarated or executed as necessary. In one particular country, the government puts a bullet into the condemned criminal's head, then bills the family of of the criminal for the price of the bullet.

Just say China if you meant to, it is damned clear especially when you mention the billing.

So, how do you propose the examples you mentioned will translate into GW?

Diablo™ · Feb 18, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Yes, in fact some of the parallels drawn from a scam (that I believe is STILL largely due to the victim's ACTIONS) to real world crimes is not just ridiculous, but not valid at all.

I agree that some of the analogies are a bit far fetched. But boil it down to the root of it: Scammers vs Victims. They may both share some fault, one is of innocent carelessness, the other is of malicious deception, which immediate actions should be taken to isolate them.

What's done is done, but that does not mean for victims to neglect the scammer. Reporting a scammer is not an attempt to recover your stolen goods, but an attempt to prevent future scams.

Diablo™ · Feb 18, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Whatever mistakes the victim may have done is for themselves to learn, we have no right to place blame on them. You do not scold a child when he burn his hands, you do not tell others that it was all his fault, you reassure him the dangers of fire and to avoid them in the future. There's no need to inflict more pain to him, the fire has already done that for him.

(hope that analogy was not too far fetched...)

lord_shar · Feb 18, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Just say China if you meant to, it is damned clear especially when you mention the billing.

So, how do you propose the examples you mentioned will translate into GW?

I tried to remain politically correct

I'm not asking for any changes. I just wanted to make it clear that no random victim of any random crime is ever to blame for any criminal act.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

To not bear blame is one thing, but the important thing is.. victims must still carry the responsibility for their own stuff up. No matter how you twist it really, in a GW scam more often than not it is made possible because of the victim's negligence.

Before you click that accept button just think "What's the hurry? Not like there are TONS of this item waiting for you where it came from right?"

lord_shar · Feb 18, 2006, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

To not bear blame is one thing, but the important thing is.. victims must still carry the responsibility for their own stuff up. No matter how you twist it really, in a GW scam more often than not it is made possible because of the victim's negligence.

Before you click that accept button just think "What's the hurry? Not like there are TONS of this item waiting for you where it came from right?"

Nothing is being twisted. The scammer preys on a victim's potential lack of first hand experience for profit. Furthermore, GW has no mechanism to trace the act back to the purpotrator. As a result, most scammers continue to profit unchecked.

Educating people is a good start, but the evil half of human nature is the true root of the problem.

Diablo™ · Feb 18, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

victims must still carry the responsibility for their own stuff up.

The point is they do, but it is a burden they did not deserve. We shouldn't constantly be forced to be paranoid. But we have to, it's not fair but it's life. As long as there is profit to be made, scammers will continue to exist. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take actions against them, that doesn't mean we should just ignore them, scammers are to blame, and they shall be reported by anyone accordingly.

Evil will always exist, but for evil to win is for good men to do nothing.

Tur713 · Feb 18, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

No matter how you twist it really, in a GW scam more often than not it is made possible because of the victim's negligence.

Pure and true ignorance is not the same as negligence. Not knowing is one thing; knowing and not checking is another. Not all scams are carried out on the negligent, they are more easily performed on those who just plain don't know.

Andy_M · Feb 18, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I don't understand the problem Scamming is wrong, if it can be proven then the guilty person gets banned. End of problem.

HDS · Feb 18, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

how about giving some specific reasons that you feel scammers are justified in ripping people off?

not this vague causes stuff be specific in telling us when scamming is justified and why it is justified

and how are they possibly being forced and by what others?

if you cant justify it stop defending it

Calm yourself.

I never said it is justified, i said there is a cause to it. There is a difference. I will defend it for as long as i so wish to do, it is my choice to do so.

As for the second last question i will let you figur that out on your own... if you can then ill give you a cookie.

Hint: Not everybody in game is able to farm 8 hrs per day and has piles of gold in storage.

Again, once more so maybe you can get it: I never said it was justified, however i do say there is a cause for it.

HDS · Feb 18, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by storm of daeth

i mean scamming in pretty much just another profession a game

Rofl, imagine Scammer primary:

Primary att: Deception (lower you victims ability to percieve your scams by 5% for each point into deception)
Next att: Lieing (for each point into lying you become more effective at it)
next att: stupidity (for each point into stupidity you gain 5 IQ points)
next att: evilness (for each point into evil you feel less & less remorse per victim scammed)

Skill connected with deception: Abort trade signet (For 5...25 seconds you are able to close and open trade widnow at speed at which victim will nto notice, if scam is pulled off as such you gain 5....25 energy)
Lieing: Description alterer (cost: 25 energy) (For 1...5 seconds object's description is altered in trade window to what you advertised it as)
Stupidity: Fact blast (cost 15 energy) (For 5...10 seconds GW spews random useless facts to other player to force them to forget what they were doing letting them be scammed easier and forcing them to forget to take screenies to avoid reporting)
Evilness: Laughing (maintained enchantment, cost 10 energy) (While you maintain this enchantment you feel 10....25% less remose for victim of your scam)